Jimmyblob - A blog by James CharbonneauJimmyblob - A blog by James Charbonneau

Subscribe to RSS Feed Login

Music Box

Photo Essays

Gallery thumbnailmonet sky

Gallery thumbnailoil

Gallery thumbnailViennese nights

Gallery thumbnailbraided tree

Gallery thumbnailskiff

Gallery thumbnailMaui Sunset

Gallery thumbnailold and new

Gallery thumbnailAlyssa looking to the sun

Gallery thumbnailBudapest Castle Hill Funicular

Gallery thumbnailThe Hooded Climber

Gallery thumbnailthe miljacka river from goat bridge

Gallery thumbnailKilauea Light

Gallery thumbnailFranz Kafka meuseum

Gallery thumbnailhot dog

Gallery thumbnailNeue Wache

Gallery thumbnailthe big eye

Gallery thumbnailInfitine Orange

Gallery thumbnailconstruction

Gallery thumbnailspindles and tounges

Gallery thumbnailmatt as miles

Gallery thumbnailSWL1000LBS

Gallery thumbnailWe Descend Towards It

Browsing Posts

The inefficiency of tall people.



Photos from Hawaii.Unproductivity. Posted by james Email post author, 2009-10-01 01:15:15

It used to be that every year at the beginning of school I would point out how small the new students were and how young they looked. I feel like this has all changed. Now they mill about campus, hulking Adonis's and leggy Amazons. Is this just me?

Seeing them all in one spot I was struck by the inefficiency of this group of behemoths as they lurch up stairs and eat their hamburgers. The physics of how the body scales and the energy it requires is not kind to tall people. I'm pretty tall and when I sit down to eat, I eat a lot. How much more food it must take to support these giant students than an average sized population? Not only do tall people make more money and are perceived to be more attractive, but they also eat all the food. More than that, there's something fundamentally inefficient in being tall. And they can't help it.

1. Tall People Eat More

Let's assume that your body scales proportionally to your height: taller people have proportionally larger muscles and torsos and legs and so on. More precisely, if I change a person's height h, their volume changes proportional to h3. This is not the formula for the volume of someone of height h, but it is how that formula changes with h, or how it scales with h. It seems reasonable to say that the amount of energy to contract this muscle also scales as volume h3 and the amount of food to provide this energy also scales proportional to their volume h3. These are just scaling arguments and not actual formulas. If the average height of the population jumped 5% from say 5'8" to almost 6', the amount of food required to sustain that population jumps by 16%! You can get this number by plugging h=1.05 into the scaling arguments. Ironically, these students are probably tall and properly proportioned because they have proper nutrition, which then contributes to food shortages and poor nutrition. This scaling also means that if everyone gets the same portion of food, then tall people don't get enough and are skinny, and short people get too much and are fat. This may explain the the tall skinny, short fat cliché.

from the short and the tall of it.
from the short and the tall of it.

2. Tall People Use More Energy

So these giants need to eat big hamburgers and oversized cookies just to live, but they also tend to lurch and lumber up stairs while they do it. I've been thinking about how tall bodies work less efficiently every since I wheezed my way up a hill recently while my friends bounded up it.

Never mind that they're in better condition than I am, I'm using physics to make excuses. Because I'm taller than my friends I weigh more than they do. As a result lifting my body up a hill takes more energy, but as we discussed earlier, muscles and the energy to run them scale with mass h3. I use more energy than my short friends and have to lift more, but I also have bigger muscles and eat more food. So it seems that climbing a hill should be as hard for a short person as a tall person, and that I have only my poor conditioning to blame. But this isn't entirely true. The disadvantage of being tall is that for long hikes the ability to take in oxygen affects performance. As one gets taller the ability to take in oxygen doesn't scale with how much oxygen the body needs.

3. Tall People have less efficient Lungs

A well known scaling advantage (energy-wise if not comfort-wise) of being big is that you retain heat better. There is less skin (surface area h2) to lose heat through compared to volume h3 for a large creature than a small one. A similar argument can be made for the ability for a tall body to take in oxygen. This depends on the surface area of you lungs which scales differently than the volume of blood in your body. If your lungs were smooth on the inside the ability for you to take in oxygen would scale as h2. But lungs have little branches inside and are more like fractals. I've read that a two dimensional lung has a fractial dimension of 1.74. In reality (3 dimensions) the surface area that can take in oxygen scales somewhere between h2 and h3, let's guess that it's h2.5.

The point is that as you get taller, your muscles get bigger your heart is bigger, but your ability to take in oxygen does not scale as well. Your lung surface area per mass scales as h-0.5, so a person who is 5% taller than you will take oxygen into the blood 97% as efficient as you, given your cardio is the same. In day to day life you wouldn't notice this, but it will factor in when you really try to push your body.

4. Tall People are Harder on Their Bodies

After huffing and puffing my way to the top of this hill, at a disadvantage because of the treacherous fractal scaling of my lungs, we just turned around and walked back down. As you know, faithful reader, this tortures the knees. The torque around your knee scales as h4, one factor of h for the length of your leg and 3 factors of h for your weight. In a weak attempt to keep my mind off the pain in my knees I calculated that the torque around my knee was near the torque of a midsize car engine.

If you increase you height by 5% the torque around your knee increases by about 21%, and the stress increases, but no matter you size the knee is still just bone, ligaments, and cartilage. This is probably why Basketball players, and tall people in general, always have such bad knees later in life. Having these ligaments and cartilage apply and lubricate these huge torques destroys them.

5. A Tall Runner Must Be Underweight

My last thought on this has to do with forcing the body to perform against the scaling. In distance running you want to be tall and efficient, a combination contrary to scaling. For efficiency you want to be short and have larger lungs compared to your body, but for stride length you want to be tall. You can't really have both so the alternative is to be underweight. Being light is obvious, but being underweight means you have the large lungs and stride of a tall person, but you only have to supply oxygen to small muscles.

Looking at a chart of champion runners we see that the taller people are more underweight and that the shortest man is actually not underweight at all. There is an ideal height that matches efficiency and stride, and if you are not that height you have to change your weight. Of course I'm simplifying it greatly, disregarding conditioning and the competitive spirit. But it is interesting.

6. Being Tall vs. Evolution

My wife pointed out to me that if being tall is so bad, why are we getting taller. My only answer beyond selection bias (tall people are more attractive and have more kids) is that the cultural evolution we are going through is allowing it. People are no longer evolving as a response to their natural environment. As evidence I found the graph that actually shows people getting shorter until the point in recent history where cultural evolution has taken over.


So, faithful reader, next time you envy your tall friend's greater earning power and intrinsic attractiveness take comfort in the fact that you need less food to survive, can climb stairs with ease, and late in life you will actually be able to move without pain.




(4)

Comments

Michael Beck2009-10-01 05:39:21
(unregistered)

Hey dude,

That was a lot to digest before 7am. I think you may need to consider being more dumb. ;-)

Mike

bec shulba2009-10-01 07:41:38
(unregistered)

i guess i'm glad that i'm 5'5.

james2009-10-01 11:34:54
Avatar of user james
Registered: unknown
Posts: 62

Wow, I'm surprised that anyone even knew it was up, I just posted it last night. I thought of breaking it into two posts because it was a little thick even to write. Then I thought, what the heck, no one will look at it.

Thanks for reading!

Lionel Brits2009-10-10 18:14:02
(unregistered)

Muscle power scales as h2. I will read the rest of your post when I have time, but didn't I point out the Adonises to you when you were busy checking out the Amazons? Also, what is that cat doing on your background?

Lionel Brits2009-10-10 19:29:07
(unregistered)

this is probably why Basketball players, and tall people in general, always have such bad knees later in life.[ citation needed ]

I realize your post is in jest, but you, sir, are no Fermi at this game. You should also consider stride length in your hiking example.

Also, my knees are doing just fine, thank-you very much.


james2009-10-11 17:21:00
Avatar of user james
Registered: unknown
Posts: 62

The comment about old basketball players with bad knees is just an observation I made after watching the sport for years. The generalization to tall people was also just an observation. About your knees, I realize your comment was in jest, but you are no basketball player.

Do you mean power in the physics sense? I assumed that the amount of ATP a muscle uses to contract scales with it's volume. Is this not true? Because it's not a race, I'm also not sure how stride length comes into the hiking example.

Lionel Brits2009-10-18 18:14:41
(unregistered)

Yes, power in the physics sense. I believe it has to do with the number of muscle fibers simultaneously engaged, which scales like area. And about stride length, your energy exerted over the hike would be energy per stride * number of strides (~1/stride length). These two variables can scale independently.

james2009-10-19 01:55:52
Avatar of user james
Registered: unknown
Posts: 62

If we imagine the muscle as a cylinder that contracts, I agree that for two people that are the same size the only difference in strength will come from the radius of the muscle. The length of the muscle is fixed.

If we take a person scale them so they are larger, their muscle will be longer and have a larger radius. This is what I mean when I make the assumption to scale people proportionally. I assume that a deviation either way from this scaling results in someone we would either call scrawny or muscular.

A muscle fiber contains a number of small units that are each partially responsible for the contraction of the whole muscle. Each of these units uses an ATP when it contracts. These units have a fixed length, so when the length of the muscle increases the number of ATP increases, so the amount of energy the muscle uses increases with its length. This is what I based my h3 scaling of energy on. The link to muscle fiber article says that the force a muscle exerts is proportional to the muscle cross section h2, implying that the energy potential energy available on the muscle is proportional to h3.

In the hiking example I assumed that the energy to required to lift the body against gravity is much larger than propelling the body forward. For a steep hike I think this is true. Then the energy required is equal to the work done against gravity, and the stride doesn't come into the energy used. The larger person does more work to get to the top of the hill, but they're also able to take in proportionally more energy. I think the the stride length scaling you talk about is more applicable to walking and is integral to finding an optimum running height/weight in the distance running example.

What I was really trying to get at with the hiking example was that after a few contractions the muscles need oxygen to continue using ATP. The oxygen needs to be supplied to the entire muscle, a volume h3, but is only taken into the body through a surface that scales somewhere between h2 and h3. To supply oxygen to their muscles, a taller person needs better cardio that a proportionally shorter person.

David2009-10-26 19:42:46
Avatar of user David
Registered: 2009-04-16
Posts: 7

"My wife pointed out to me that if being tall is so bad, why are we getting taller. My only answer beyond selection bias (tall people are more attractive and have more kids) is that the cultural evolution we are going through is allowing it."

Evolution does not always select the fittest in the short term. Tall people may be an evolutionary dead end and simply a product of an abundant food supply. Abundant food results from cheap oil --food is oil -- and once we run out, things will return to normal. That is, back to food that is high in fiber and low in calories.

Cheap oil doesn't explain tall humans in the Paleolithic period but perhaps a warmer climate had a similar effect as oil on an abundant food supply.

Jheri2009-12-26 19:57:58
(unregistered)

:-)

I am a 190 cm women, close to 6'3". There was a very good article in the New Yorker on the history of height and a few other observations.

Kevin2010-03-20 19:39:03
(unregistered)

I was browsing through Jimmycorp today, admiring some great photos and casually wondering why I was so good looking and wealthy, when I came upon this post. It was all so clear until I smacked my head against that beam in the basement that I've played 'smack my head against' oh so often (and lost every round) and the clarity of it all popped right back from whence it came.

In any case it bodes well for the half marathon coming up. I haven't been very faithful with the recommended training regime for the 'average' runner so I'll let you know how it works out with some empirical data.

Harley2011-09-05 18:38:03
(unregistered)

Most of everything you wrote is not true and I am guessing that it just comes from a hunch?

To answer the evolution question;not all but some tall people are learning about energy pathways because of energy distribution factors. Life is different when your built like a grasshopper. The arms and legs are like antennae when the body is applied to the right mindset. I eat like a normal person and I am 6'7". There are many factors in the social structure that are creating more tall people but my personal opinion is that its a phylogenetic response to the fact that society is not utilizing the bodies they have or learning anything from them so now the dynamics are changing. The mythical people of Atlantis were said to be 7ft. tall and great healers that worked with the star and earth energies. hope that helps

cierra2011-10-24 15:42:40
(unregistered)

i am tall too you guys


 

You may reply to this topic without logging in if you wish.

Reply to this topic

Name: (required)
Email: (optional)
Homepage: (optional)
Challenge question: are you human?
Answer: (required)
Subject:
Body: